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Details for Benchmark: KU3890

N 40° 51.142 W 073° 57.648 (NAD 83)

Altitude: 249

Coordinates may not be exact. Altitude is SCALED and location is ADJUSTED. (more info)

Location:
In BERGEN county, NJ View Original Datasheet
Designation:
PALISADES
Marker Type:
bolt
Setting:
in rock outcrop
Stability:

Reference Points

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thanks to papa bear nyc descriptions, i was able to find all the existing rods and ref marks readily.

[Photos:]
photoBolt

Found at the begining of a day of hiking along the Palisades.

[Photos:]
photoKU3890

I returned to the Palisades today 4 days after my last visit to get some more pictures and to bag some marks I had missed last time.

This mark was the last on my agenda. After hiking along the base of the cliff from the Englewood Boat Basin towards the GWB, I climbed the nearly 400 stone steps of the Carpenter Trail, crossed under the bridge roads and went up into Fort Lee Historic Park for this mark. Thanks to seventhings for his excellent report and photos which helped me find it.

This mark was originally set in 1898, long before the bridge was built and was lost for some years. It was thought that bridge construction or park construction had obliterated it. In 2000, the Port Authority (which administers the bridge) found it as well as a number of witness marks to tie it to. I was able to find all of the PA's witness marks and RM 2 as well.

RM 2 is of special interest. It was reported in 1930, when it was set, as a CGS reference mark disk and recovered twice more in the 1930s. In 1956 it was used in a level line as a bench mark and recieved its own PID (see [url=http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=KU1645]KU1645[/url]) and again reported as a CGS reference mark disk. In 2001, the PA reported that it was a brass plug, not a disk. I looked very carefully and it seems to me that it is quite possibly the stem of a disk whose top has been cut off. Look at the close-up and you will see what look like hack saw marks. So I'm of the opinion that the original stem [i]may[/i] still be there after all. The PA reported a punch hole, but the close-up shows a little mass of broken brass in the center of the top, not a hole.

As a rererence mark it serves quite well. However it's value as a bench mark is clearly lost, whether it's a cut off disk, or a brass plug that replaced the disk.

RM 1 was not found. It would appear to be located under a landscaped area. I hope to return and make careful measurements and use a metal detector and dig for it. Let's just hope the park ranger is not looking.

[i]Logged with NGS on 10/2 as "Found, good condition".[/i]

[This entry was edited by Papa-Bear-NYC on Monday, October 02, 2006 at 1:51:23 PM.]

[Photos:]
photoKU3890 "PALISADES", Fort Lee NJ
View from the outlook over the fence towards the cliff edge. The mark is just 10 to 12 feet past the fence and is a good 25 feet from the edge.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES", Fort Lee NJ
View of the rock ledge showing the station mark. Close-up of mark in insert. The mark is a brass plug with a cross cut and a punch hole in its center.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" 2 bolts, Fort Lee NJ
There is an iron bolt about 15 inches to the east of the station. This shot shows both the iron bolt and the brass station mark with a measuring tape. Close-ups of the two bolts in inserts.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" Chiseled cross, Fort Lee NJ
There are two witness marks about 20 feet east of the station towards the cliff edge. Both are still about 5 feet back from the edge so it's still relatively safe. The first is a chiseled cross located on the top of a stone in an old fence on the left (north) side of the path. It is about 19 feet from the station.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" Eccentric, Fort Lee NJ
There are two witness marks about 20 feet east of the station towards the cliff edge. Both are still about 5 feet back from the edge so it's still relatively safe. The second is a 1/2 inch drill hole in the rock ledge with a triangle chiseled around it. The PA refers to it as an "Eccentric" (a point surveyors will use as an alternate to the main station in order to get a particular line of site). The mark is about 20 feet east the station and about 5 feet lower.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" Curb cut, Fort Lee NJ
Near the corner of the curb under the fence there is a cut or gap in the concrete. The PA measured the station as 12.5 feet east of this cut.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" RM 2, Fort Lee NJ
View of the location of Reference Mark No. 2. Go about 90 feet south of the station along the path, and then follow a herd path towards the left (towards the cliff) where you will find a clearing and a rock ledge as shown here.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" RM 2, Fort Lee NJ
THe rock ledge and Reference Mark No. 2. The close-up shows what appears to be saw marks on the top of the brass piece.
photoKU3890 "PALISADES" RM 2 with KU3940, Fort Lee NJ
One last view of RM 2, and in the background, what must be the most beloved benchmark in New York among generations of children. Yes the Little Red Lighthouse at the base of the Great Big Gray Bridge.

Found it.®

With excellent photos from seventhings, we finally found this one!

[Photos:]
photoKU3890
photoKU3890
View slightly north of east to George Washington Bridge.

Found with change to the description and to-reach. Reported NOT FOUND by NJGS in 1992, but reported FOUND by Port Authority of NY & NJ in 2000 (see the current NGS datasheet). The station consists of the remains of a bolt protruding from a one-inch diameter cut circle in a rock outcropping about 12 feet east of the curbing at an overlook in the Fort Lee Historic Park section of the Palisade Interstate Park in Fort Lee, Bergen County, NJ. The station is 12 feet east of the eastern curbing (that supports a three-foot tall metal guardrail) in the southern section of the multi-layered overlook, and 18.5 feet southwest of a rough cross cut into the top of an ancient stone wall. Searched for RM1 (KU1644) but did not find it – the location is in a landscaped area of the overlook bearing 300 degrees for 62.75 feet from the station. Searched for RM2 (KU1645) and found a brass plug in a rock outcropping at the described location bearing 200 degrees for 104.5 feet from the station. In 2001, PA NY & NJ recovered this brass plug as RM2 (see the current NGS datasheet for KU1645).

To reach from Interstate 95 northbound approaching the George Washington Bridge, take Exit 73 (last exit in NJ before bridge tollbooth) to Bridge Plaza South in Fort Lee. Go east-southeast on Bridge Plaza South for about 0.42 miles to the intersection with Hudson Terrace (State Route 505) running north-south and Bigler Street leading southwest. Turn right and go southwest on Bigler Street for about 0.16 miles until it T’s into Main Street. Turn left and go southeast on Main Street for about 0.08 miles to the intersection with Hudson Terrace. Turn left and go north on Hudson Terrace for about 0.16 miles to the entrance drive to the Fort Lee Historic Park leading east. Turn right and go easterly and northerly on the park drive, pass the Visitors’ Center on the right, for about 0.24 miles to the northern end of the drive (at the public restrooms). Park and walk east on the most northerly paved walking path for about 100 yards to the south-most section of the overlook and the station 12 feet east of the curbing along the eastern side of the overlook.

[Photos:]
photoKU3890 PALISADES ref X
photoKU3890 PALISADES in Fort Lee, Bergen Co., NJ
Looking east, the station is at the white notebook beyong the railing, center.
photoKU3890 in Fort Lee, Bergen Co., NJ
Looking east-southeast, the station is at the white notebook, right-center.
photoKU3890 Bolt PALISADES

Documented History (by the NGS)

01/01/1898 by CGS (MONUMENTED)
DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1898 (DBW) PALISADES IS ON THE TOP OF THE PALISADES JUST ABOVE TWO POWDER HOUSES. IT IS N OF FORT LEE AND S OF A LARGE QUARRY WHERE THEY ARE CUTTING AWAY THE TOP OF THE PALISADES. IT IS MARKED WITH ONE OF THE COPPER BOLTS MADE FOR ME THIS YEAR TO MARK MAGNETIC STATIONS AND MERIDIAN LINES. THE COPPER BOLT IS SET IN THE SOLID ROCK. THERE ARE NO OBJECTS NEARBY WORTH MEASURING.
01/01/1930 by CGS (GOOD)
RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1930 (CAE) STATION RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. THE POWDER HOUSES HAVE BEEN REMOVED. THE QUARRY IS NOW THE W APPROACH TO THE HUDSON RIVER BRIDGE. STATION IS ON A BARE LEDGE, 11 METERS N 50 DEG W OF EDGE OF CLIFF AND ABOUT 70 METERS S OF W ANCHOR FOR THE BRIDGE. AN IRON FENCE RUNS NW AND SE AND PASSES 1.505 METERS NE OF STATION. REFERENCE MARK NO.2 IS A STANDARD BRONZE DISK IN OUTCROPPING BEDROCK. REFERENCE MARK NO.1 IS A STANDARD BRONZE DISK, SET IN CONCRETE, IN OUTCROPPING BEDROCK. WITNESS MARK NO.1 - NE CORNER OF A SHINGLE COVERED HOUSE RESTING ON MASONRY FOUNDATION. WITNESS MARK NO.2 - SW CORNER OF A STUCCO HOUSE WITH A MASONRY FOUNDATION, NOW OCCUPIED BY PORT OF NEW YORK AUTHORITY AS AN OFFICE BUILDING. WITNESS MARK NO.3 IS THE APEX OF A ROCK PIER WITH PYRAMIDAL CONCRETE CAP, WHICH IS PART OF A RETAINING WALL WITH HANDRAIL. GRANTS TOMB AND TALL TOWER OF BAPTIST CHURCH, NEW YORK CITY ARE IN RANGE.
01/01/1932 by CGS (GOOD)
RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1932 (RWW) RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION FROM THE ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION AND AS OF THE 1930 RECOVERY NOTE. A COMPLETE DESCRIPTION FOLLOWS--THIS STATION IS ON THE W SIDE OF THE HUDSON RIVER ATOP AND ON THE EDGE OF THE PALISADES APPROXIMATELY 200 METERS S OF GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE. IT IS LOCATED JUST OUTSIDE THE PORT AUTHORITY FENCE, SE OF THEIR OFFICE (A SMALL STUCCO STRUCTURE), ON A BARE ROCK LEDGE 11 METERS IN FROM THE CLIFF EDGE. CENTER IS MARKED BY THE CROSS AND DRILL HOLE ATOP A BRASS PLUG SUNK IN BEDROCK. TWO STANDARD COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY BRONZE REFERENCE DISKS WERE PLACED IN 1930 -- NO.1 CEMENTED IN A DEPRESSION IN THE BEDROCK TO THE WESTWARD. NO.2 CEMENTED IN A DRILL HOLE IN THE BEDROCK TO THE SOUTHWARD. ADDITIONAL REFERENCE MEASUREMENTS WERE TAKEN, AS FOLLOWS-- NORMAL TO IRON FENCE TO N 1.525 METERS TO SE CORNER OF STUCCO BUILDING (PORT AUTHORITY OFFICE) 21.50 METERS NORMAL TO INSIDE EDGE OF STONE WALL 3.235 METERS TO S END (SW CORNER) OF STONE WALL 6.45 METERS THERE IS AMPLE ROOM AND EXCELLENT FOOTING FOR CENTRAL TRIPOD SET-UPS. POSSIBLE AIR-PHOTO CONTROL MEASUREMENTS ARE SHOWN ON THE ACCOMPANYING SKETCH.
01/01/1933 by CGS (GOOD)
RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1933 (RWW) RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION AS ORIGINALLY DESCRIBED, WITH THE FOLLOWING ADDITION-- REFERENCE DISKS ARE STAMPED PALISADE I AND PALISADE II.
01/01/1933 by CGS (GOOD)
RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1933 (JB) RECOVERED. BY H.C. WARWICK IN 1933, IN GOOD CONDITION. FOLLOWING COMPLETE DESCRIPTION GIVEN IN 1933 BY H.C. WARWICK IN HIS RECONNAISSANCE NOTES-- THIS STATION IS ON THE W SIDE OF THE HUDSON RIVER ON THE EDGE OF THE PALISADES, APPROXIMATELY 200 METERS S OF THE W END OF THE GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE, ON PROPERTY OF PORT OF NEW YORK AUTHORITY AND AT PRESENT LEASED BY C AND W HOLDING CORPORATION. JUST INSIDE OF AN IRON FENCE ALONG THE EDGE OF THE PALISADES, SE OF A SMALL STUCCO STRUCTURE WHICH WAS FORMERLY THE OFFICE OF THE PORT OF NEW YORK AUTHORITY, ON A BARE ROCK LEDGE 11 METERS IN FROM THE EDGE OF THE CLIFF. CENTER IS MARKED BY THE CROSS AND DRILL HOLE ATOP A BRASS PLUG SUNK IN BEDROCK. REFERENCE MARK NO.1 STAMPED PALISADE I, IS CEMENTED INTO A DEPRESSION IN THE BEDROCK TO THE WESTWARD, AND IT POINTS TO THE NORTHWARD OF THE STATION. REFERENCE MARK NO.2, STAMPED PALISADE II, IS CEMENTED INTO A DRILL HOLE IN THE BEDROCK TO THE SOUTHWARD, AND IT POINTS TO THE WESTWARD OF THE STATION. REFERENCE MEASUREMENTS WERE MADE AS FOLLOWS-- TO THE SE CORNER OF STUCCO BUILDING 21.50 METERS NORMAL TO INSIDE EDGE OF STONE WALL 3.235 METERS TO S END (SW CORNER) OF STONE WALL 6.45 METERS
01/01/1934 by NJGS (GOOD)
RECOVERY NOTE BY NEW JERSEY GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION FROM THE ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION AND AS OF THE 1932 RECOVERY NOTE.
02/05/1992 by NJGS (MARK NOT FOUND)
RECOVERY NOTE BY NEW JERSEY GEODETIC SURVEY 1992 (FAC) THE STATION WAS SEARCHED FOR AND NOT RECOVERED AFTER A HALF HOUR SEARCH BY A ONE MAN PARTY. THE SITE IS NOW PART OF THE FORT LEE HISTORICAL PARK AND CONSIDERABLE IMPROVEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE AREA SINCE THE LAST RECOVERY. A SCENIC OVERLOOK HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED IN THE AREA OF THE STATION. NO ORIGINAL TIES EXIST.

Control Text

  • The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in September 1999.
  • The orthometric height was scaled from a topographic map.
  • The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections.
  • The geoid height was determined by GEOID99.

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