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141.4 mi S | 12 | Regular | 3.5 / 1.5 | 2020.11.02 | 2006.07.28 | |
My first puzzle! Hidden: 07/28/2006
I was one month shy of my caching first year anniversary when I published this one. I had already learned how delightful a clever puzzle could be, and I wanted to contribute one of my own. I chose a subject close to my heart. It's based on an observation I first had decades ago: something I saw that reminded me of something else. | ||||||
My first puzzle! Hidden: 07/28/2006
I was one month shy of my caching first year anniversary when I published this one. I had already learned how delightful a clever puzzle could be, and I wanted to contribute one of my own. I chose a subject close to my heart. It's based on an observation I first had decades ago: something I saw that reminded me of something else. | ||||||
148 mi S | 30 | Small | 1.5 / 1.5 | 2024.11.09 | 2009.01.29 | |
A challenge, not a puzzle. Hidden: 01/29/2009
I'm lucky to have this challenge. Groundspeak rules have since changed - I wouldn't be able to get this published now.
The idea for this came during a conversation with dear caching friend ornith about challenge caches. He suggested I do a challenge for people who hid 100 caches. I didn't like that idea - I thought it would encourage people to throw out crummy micros in all kinds of crummy places just to get a high hide count. I didn't want to encourage that.
I also thought a challenge for people with 100 hides would have few qualifiers. Silly me.
I came up with the idea for this challenge instead, with the thought (as explained on the cache page) that a cache must have SOMETHING positive going for it to get that many finders. I wanted people to describe something positive about their qualifying caches in hopes it would inspire others to work towards QUALITY over QUANTITY. Silly me. | ||||||
A challenge, not a puzzle. Hidden: 01/29/2009
I'm lucky to have this challenge. Groundspeak rules have since changed - I wouldn't be able to get this published now.
The idea for this came during a conversation with dear caching friend ornith about challenge caches. He suggested I do a challenge for people who hid 100 caches. I didn't like that idea - I thought it would encourage people to throw out crummy micros in all kinds of crummy places just to get a high hide count. I didn't want to encourage that.
I also thought a challenge for people with 100 hides would have few qualifiers. Silly me.
I came up with the idea for this challenge instead, with the thought (as explained on the cache page) that a cache must have SOMETHING positive going for it to get that many finders. I wanted people to describe something positive about their qualifying caches in hopes it would inspire others to work towards QUALITY over QUANTITY. Silly me. | ||||||
144.8 mi S | 18 | Small | 1.5 / 1.5 | 2017.02.05 | 2009.01.29 | |
Also a challenge, not a puzzle. Hidden: 01/29/2009
At the time I published this, I was getting tired of micro caches. They have an important place in caching, and there are many cleverly-hidden micros out there. But I also think they are the first choice of lazy, unimaginative, and cheap cachers.
It takes more effort to hide a larger-than-micro cache in an urban environment, and I wanted a way to identify and acknowledge cachers that did that. Remember, this was before the wonderful system of awarding "Favorites Points" existed.
Again, I was hoping this would encourage QUALITY over QUANTITY of hides. Silly me. | ||||||
Also a challenge, not a puzzle. Hidden: 01/29/2009
At the time I published this, I was getting tired of micro caches. They have an important place in caching, and there are many cleverly-hidden micros out there. But I also think they are the first choice of lazy, unimaginative, and cheap cachers.
It takes more effort to hide a larger-than-micro cache in an urban environment, and I wanted a way to identify and acknowledge cachers that did that. Remember, this was before the wonderful system of awarding "Favorites Points" existed.
Again, I was hoping this would encourage QUALITY over QUANTITY of hides. Silly me. | ||||||
147.8 mi S | 20 | Small | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2021.02.20 | 2009.02.11 | |
Hidden: 02/11/2009
This is based on another subject near to my heart. I had the idea for this puzzle rattling around in my brain for several years before I figured out a way to make it work. I couldn't find the images I needed online, so I traced them from books.
I could have easily made it devilishly tricky by working in a few red herrings, but I wanted it to be fun, and not intimidating to novice puzzlers. Maybe I didn't succeed - there aren't as many finders as I'd hoped.
The cache was originally in a bit of woodlands, but when "No Trespassing" signs sprouted around the area, I had to move it. It's not in a great spot now - it was hard to find a spot nearby not already taken by a micro. But at least I found a spot big enough for an ammo can.
It was my favorite of my puzzles for 5 years, but on 06/16/2014 "Lilliputian Puzzle Cache" overtook it. | ||||||
Hidden: 02/11/2009
This is based on another subject near to my heart. I had the idea for this puzzle rattling around in my brain for several years before I figured out a way to make it work. I couldn't find the images I needed online, so I traced them from books.
I could have easily made it devilishly tricky by working in a few red herrings, but I wanted it to be fun, and not intimidating to novice puzzlers. Maybe I didn't succeed - there aren't as many finders as I'd hoped.
The cache was originally in a bit of woodlands, but when "No Trespassing" signs sprouted around the area, I had to move it. It's not in a great spot now - it was hard to find a spot nearby not already taken by a micro. But at least I found a spot big enough for an ammo can.
It was my favorite of my puzzles for 5 years, but on 06/16/2014 "Lilliputian Puzzle Cache" overtook it. | ||||||
150.2 mi S | 93 | Regular | 5.0 / 4.5 | 2025.02.09 | 2009.12.17 | |
Hidden: 12/17/2009
I had several goals in mind when I did this cache:
(1) I wanted something for the 5/4.5 Fizzy D/T rating. At the time, the nearest one was down in Corvallis.
(2) I knew a lot of interesting, historic, and scenic spots that I wanted to share.
(3) I'd just read a fascinating book about the history of ciphers that I also wanted to share.
(4) I was a Taekwondo enthusiast and wanted to do a cache based on a martial arts theme.
This cache is the result. I can't do straight 4.5 terrain myself, so I decided to send people hither and yon to a bunch of different waypoints to earn that rating. None of the individual puzzles is harder than 3, and most of the terrain to the individual waypoints is really about a 2. But the combination is enough to justify the cache rating. This is a cache for people who want to earn their stars honestly.
I'm always amazed when someone finishes. I'm not sure I would go through all that bother myself. :D | ||||||
Hidden: 12/17/2009
I had several goals in mind when I did this cache:
(1) I wanted something for the 5/4.5 Fizzy D/T rating. At the time, the nearest one was down in Corvallis.
(2) I knew a lot of interesting, historic, and scenic spots that I wanted to share.
(3) I'd just read a fascinating book about the history of ciphers that I also wanted to share.
(4) I was a Taekwondo enthusiast and wanted to do a cache based on a martial arts theme.
This cache is the result. I can't do straight 4.5 terrain myself, so I decided to send people hither and yon to a bunch of different waypoints to earn that rating. None of the individual puzzles is harder than 3, and most of the terrain to the individual waypoints is really about a 2. But the combination is enough to justify the cache rating. This is a cache for people who want to earn their stars honestly.
I'm always amazed when someone finishes. I'm not sure I would go through all that bother myself. :D | ||||||
150.2 mi S | 14 | Small | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2016.09.24 | 2012.12.02 | |
Hidden: 12/02/2012
This one came three years after having done "Dark Spirits ...". I'd gotten tired of the proliferation of puzzles seemingly in competition for the "Most Obfuscated" award, and/or requiring Google searches for obscure trivia. I wanted to remind people that puzzles don't need to be obscure or hard, that they can be clever and fun.
I first saw this code in the Oregonian newspaper's "The Edge" column a few years ago, and laughed out loud. I thought then I could turn it into a fun puzzle, and finally got around to doing so. | ||||||
Hidden: 12/02/2012
This one came three years after having done "Dark Spirits ...". I'd gotten tired of the proliferation of puzzles seemingly in competition for the "Most Obfuscated" award, and/or requiring Google searches for obscure trivia. I wanted to remind people that puzzles don't need to be obscure or hard, that they can be clever and fun.
I first saw this code in the Oregonian newspaper's "The Edge" column a few years ago, and laughed out loud. I thought then I could turn it into a fun puzzle, and finally got around to doing so. | ||||||
147 mi S | 44 | Small | 1.5 / 1.5 | 2022.11.15 | 2012.12.02 | |
Hidden: 12/02/2012
Another one done in hopes of inspiring people to come up with more puzzles that are fun and clever, and not requiring mind reading skills.
When I first heard this song, it took three days to get it out of my head. Then I turned it into this puzzle, so every time someone logs it I'm reminded anew of this catchy, morbidly-fun song. :D | ||||||
Hidden: 12/02/2012
Another one done in hopes of inspiring people to come up with more puzzles that are fun and clever, and not requiring mind reading skills.
When I first heard this song, it took three days to get it out of my head. Then I turned it into this puzzle, so every time someone logs it I'm reminded anew of this catchy, morbidly-fun song. :D | ||||||
147.5 mi S | 37 | Micro | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2025.03.19 | 2012.12.07 | |
Hidden: 12/07/2012
There seems to be little variety in newly-published puzzles these days. So many mystery caches seem to be either convoluted challenges or Google searches for obscure trivia. Too many others require intuitive leaps, or "mind-reading", something I don't enjoy. I know a lot of people hate puzzle caches, and small wonder.
I saw this fun, easy puzzle in a cute little puzzle book and thought it was a nice change from some of those other types of puzzles. | ||||||
Hidden: 12/07/2012
There seems to be little variety in newly-published puzzles these days. So many mystery caches seem to be either convoluted challenges or Google searches for obscure trivia. Too many others require intuitive leaps, or "mind-reading", something I don't enjoy. I know a lot of people hate puzzle caches, and small wonder.
I saw this fun, easy puzzle in a cute little puzzle book and thought it was a nice change from some of those other types of puzzles. | ||||||
by: charliewhiskeyGC417EQ | 148.8 mi S | 22 | Micro | 3.0 / 1.0 | 2025.02.16 | 2013.02.08 |
Hidden: 02/08/2013
PhilNi is the originator of this puzzle. I looked at it and looked at it and puzzled and pondered over it for a LONG TIME before I joined forces with a fellow puzzle enthusiast and, in trading ideas back and forth, the flash of inspiration struck us and we figured out the solution to this clever, unique, and elegant puzzle. Ours was a surprisingly low-tech solution that, nonetheless, worked.
PhilNi was gracious enough to grant permission for his idea to be copied, and so here it is. I was lucky and found an appropriate spot. You should check out his other puzzles - they are universally clever and well-done, and I hope they inspire others. | ||||||
Hidden: 02/08/2013
PhilNi is the originator of this puzzle. I looked at it and looked at it and puzzled and pondered over it for a LONG TIME before I joined forces with a fellow puzzle enthusiast and, in trading ideas back and forth, the flash of inspiration struck us and we figured out the solution to this clever, unique, and elegant puzzle. Ours was a surprisingly low-tech solution that, nonetheless, worked.
PhilNi was gracious enough to grant permission for his idea to be copied, and so here it is. I was lucky and found an appropriate spot. You should check out his other puzzles - they are universally clever and well-done, and I hope they inspire others. | ||||||
151 mi S | 20 | Small | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2024.07.23 | 2013.02.21 | |
Hidden 02/21/2013.
I feel bad for newbie puzzle solvers. So many puzzles these days seem intimidatingly hard for someone just starting out, so I thought I'd publish a few that were easy and fun in hopes of encouraging more people to give puzzle caches a try.
There's a reason I majored in math and am fonder of math puzzles than word ones - I'm a poor speller! It did little good as a child to ask my parents how to spell a word. Their answer was "Look it up in a dictionary", which is no help at all if you can't spell the word in the first place. I bless the person who created "spell checking" for the computer!
I was completely baffled when I first saw the word GHOTI, but grinned with delight when I figured it out. (... except I didn't figure it out, poor speller that I am. I had to have it explained to me.) I hope others get a grin out of this too. | ||||||
Hidden 02/21/2013.
I feel bad for newbie puzzle solvers. So many puzzles these days seem intimidatingly hard for someone just starting out, so I thought I'd publish a few that were easy and fun in hopes of encouraging more people to give puzzle caches a try.
There's a reason I majored in math and am fonder of math puzzles than word ones - I'm a poor speller! It did little good as a child to ask my parents how to spell a word. Their answer was "Look it up in a dictionary", which is no help at all if you can't spell the word in the first place. I bless the person who created "spell checking" for the computer!
I was completely baffled when I first saw the word GHOTI, but grinned with delight when I figured it out. (... except I didn't figure it out, poor speller that I am. I had to have it explained to me.) I hope others get a grin out of this too. | ||||||
149.3 mi S | 11 | Small | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2017.04.28 | 2013.02.21 | |
Hidden 02/21/2013.
As I say in the cache description, I love Games magazine, and CrunchyFrog83's clever "Games on our Shelf" series of puzzles reminded me of it.
At first I tried to make this more convoluted, with letters along the left and top sides to identify the grids needed, which made the puzzle cluttered and confusing. But when I mentioned sudoku puzzles when drafting the cache description, I had a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious) and realized I could do this the same way, with letters in the grid. Sometimes I can be a little dim. :D
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Hidden 02/21/2013.
As I say in the cache description, I love Games magazine, and CrunchyFrog83's clever "Games on our Shelf" series of puzzles reminded me of it.
At first I tried to make this more convoluted, with letters along the left and top sides to identify the grids needed, which made the puzzle cluttered and confusing. But when I mentioned sudoku puzzles when drafting the cache description, I had a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious) and realized I could do this the same way, with letters in the grid. Sometimes I can be a little dim. :D
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146.1 mi S | 18 | Regular | 2.0 / 2.0 | 2015.10.15 | 2013.02.25 | |
Hidden 02/25/2013.
I've wanted to do a puzzle based on this concept for a long time. Then I found out the idea has been done. Twice. :( But not in our area, so I thought I'd go ahead and do it. I thought it would be a nice change from obscure trivia searches and convoluted challenges, and that kids might enjoy it.
I found this spot one day while driving nearby. I saw a sign and followed it down the road to the entrance, which I thought looked promising. A great blue heron flew out of the undergrowth and there were signs where a beaver chewed on one of the trees, but I was disappointed at what little else I found once I got past the entrance. I'm hoping there will be further work that will improve the area and make it a more enjoyable visit, but until then, this is what you get. :D | ||||||
Hidden 02/25/2013.
I've wanted to do a puzzle based on this concept for a long time. Then I found out the idea has been done. Twice. :( But not in our area, so I thought I'd go ahead and do it. I thought it would be a nice change from obscure trivia searches and convoluted challenges, and that kids might enjoy it.
I found this spot one day while driving nearby. I saw a sign and followed it down the road to the entrance, which I thought looked promising. A great blue heron flew out of the undergrowth and there were signs where a beaver chewed on one of the trees, but I was disappointed at what little else I found once I got past the entrance. I'm hoping there will be further work that will improve the area and make it a more enjoyable visit, but until then, this is what you get. :D | ||||||
147.8 mi S | 28 | Small | 3.5 / 1.5 | 2016.11.17 | 2013.03.11 | |
Hidden: 03/11/2013
I can't take credit for this clever puzzle. It's another one inspired by Games Magazine. I changed the two-word phrases, or else you could find the solution with a Google search. I considered making it harder with red-herring phrases to divert attention from the real puzzle, but thought "Nah - sometimes an easier puzzle is fun too."
I had my eye on this hiding spot for several years. It originally was private property, but one day the signs were gone, and so I stopped by to make sure I had permission to place the cache here. No problem!
I've had the container idea for even more years. I bought the cover piece with the plan to use it for a devilishly tricky hide in a particular spot, but before I could get my act (or rather, cache) together another one was placed nearby. Rats! Foiled by proximity! I kept a watch on that cache in hopes it would be archived, freeing up my spot, but no such luck.
So when I saw this spot, I knew just what to do! :D | ||||||
Hidden: 03/11/2013
I can't take credit for this clever puzzle. It's another one inspired by Games Magazine. I changed the two-word phrases, or else you could find the solution with a Google search. I considered making it harder with red-herring phrases to divert attention from the real puzzle, but thought "Nah - sometimes an easier puzzle is fun too."
I had my eye on this hiding spot for several years. It originally was private property, but one day the signs were gone, and so I stopped by to make sure I had permission to place the cache here. No problem!
I've had the container idea for even more years. I bought the cover piece with the plan to use it for a devilishly tricky hide in a particular spot, but before I could get my act (or rather, cache) together another one was placed nearby. Rats! Foiled by proximity! I kept a watch on that cache in hopes it would be archived, freeing up my spot, but no such luck.
So when I saw this spot, I knew just what to do! :D | ||||||
by: charliewhiskeyGC46CDT | 148.4 mi S | 22 | Micro | 2.5 / 1.0 | 2025.04.02 | 2013.03.14 |
Hidden 03/14/2013
I like the idea that "the harder the puzzle, the easier the hide should be". So, as this was to be a tricky hide, I wanted an easy puzzle. When I learned about this math feature, I thought it was quite clever and interesting, and would work for an easy puzzle. So here you go.
The hiding spot is rather crummy, and I apologize for that. I'm using it in part to stake my claim for when the nearby area is opened up for a new park. | ||||||
Hidden 03/14/2013
I like the idea that "the harder the puzzle, the easier the hide should be". So, as this was to be a tricky hide, I wanted an easy puzzle. When I learned about this math feature, I thought it was quite clever and interesting, and would work for an easy puzzle. So here you go.
The hiding spot is rather crummy, and I apologize for that. I'm using it in part to stake my claim for when the nearby area is opened up for a new park. | ||||||
by: charliewhiskeyGC46CH2 | 150.6 mi S | 58 | Regular | 3.0 / 1.5 | 2025.03.29 | 2013.03.30 |
Hidden: 03/30/2013
I found this problem in a puzzle book and enjoyed the little math exercise so much I decided to use it for a puzzle cache. I even had an idea as to how I wanted to do the cache. But where to put it?!!
I drove around for a few days looking for a good spot, and then remembered this one that I'd found last year. Perfect place for the cache!
I assembled all the parts, and then had second thoughts. I dislike finding this size container - why should I inflict this on fellow cachers? So I consulted with a fellow puzzle enthusiast who recommended using it as a waypoint leading to a nice big fat traditional-size container, so that is what I did.
This spot can be surprisingly busy during weekdays, but when I placed it on a Saturday, there was no else around - just lots of birds. Oh - and Laurie Ladybug's family. :D | ||||||
Hidden: 03/30/2013
I found this problem in a puzzle book and enjoyed the little math exercise so much I decided to use it for a puzzle cache. I even had an idea as to how I wanted to do the cache. But where to put it?!!
I drove around for a few days looking for a good spot, and then remembered this one that I'd found last year. Perfect place for the cache!
I assembled all the parts, and then had second thoughts. I dislike finding this size container - why should I inflict this on fellow cachers? So I consulted with a fellow puzzle enthusiast who recommended using it as a waypoint leading to a nice big fat traditional-size container, so that is what I did.
This spot can be surprisingly busy during weekdays, but when I placed it on a Saturday, there was no else around - just lots of birds. Oh - and Laurie Ladybug's family. :D | ||||||
147.5 mi S | 28 | Small | 2.0 / 1.5 | 2017.08.27 | 2013.04.28 | |
Hidden: 04/28/2013
A double alpha-numeric challenge came out, and as of now it's devilishly hard to get a cache with "88" in it's title. I found one, but it was in New York. I remembered this puzzle and thought it would be a good choice to help out local cachers.
When I first saw this puzzle, some of the phrases were easy to figure out, and some surprisingly tough; but the tougher the puzzle the greater my grin when the "ah-HA" moment finally hits. I love that "ah-HA" moment - it's the reason I love puzzles so much. I get one thrill when I solve the puzzle and a second one when (if) I find the cache.
I apologize to people hoping for more of a mental challenge. I could have made it harder, but wanted it to be solvable by a lot of people who may need it for the challenge.
The spot for the hide isn't spectacular (it's getting harder and harder these days to find a good spot amidst the glut of micros) but I was able to hide a biggish small cache disguised to fit in. | ||||||
Hidden: 04/28/2013
A double alpha-numeric challenge came out, and as of now it's devilishly hard to get a cache with "88" in it's title. I found one, but it was in New York. I remembered this puzzle and thought it would be a good choice to help out local cachers.
When I first saw this puzzle, some of the phrases were easy to figure out, and some surprisingly tough; but the tougher the puzzle the greater my grin when the "ah-HA" moment finally hits. I love that "ah-HA" moment - it's the reason I love puzzles so much. I get one thrill when I solve the puzzle and a second one when (if) I find the cache.
I apologize to people hoping for more of a mental challenge. I could have made it harder, but wanted it to be solvable by a lot of people who may need it for the challenge.
The spot for the hide isn't spectacular (it's getting harder and harder these days to find a good spot amidst the glut of micros) but I was able to hide a biggish small cache disguised to fit in. | ||||||
146.9 mi S | 14 | Small | 3.0 / 1.5 | 2022.10.12 | 2013.05.31 | |
Hidden: 05/31/2013
I was flabbergasted when I learned of my 20-year-old son's interest in "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic". So I watched some of the shows and did some online research, and in the process of all that came across an alphabet made up by a fan of the show. I thought I could use it for a puzzle, but then decided against it. It was very hard to find online without an exactly-worded search, and I didn't want a puzzle based on something that obscure. (There's enough of that going around already.)
But I had a spot in mind that would tie in nicely with a "My Little Pony..." puzzle theme. I found it while driving around looking for a spot for another cache, but didn't use it then because I couldn't think of a good way to leave a bigger-than-micro cache there.
So I'm using that spot as a waypoint. It's a scenic, historic area. I hope you enjoy it. To get you there, I started with an easy puzzle, but added a little twist inspired by that original alphabet. | ||||||
Hidden: 05/31/2013
I was flabbergasted when I learned of my 20-year-old son's interest in "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic". So I watched some of the shows and did some online research, and in the process of all that came across an alphabet made up by a fan of the show. I thought I could use it for a puzzle, but then decided against it. It was very hard to find online without an exactly-worded search, and I didn't want a puzzle based on something that obscure. (There's enough of that going around already.)
But I had a spot in mind that would tie in nicely with a "My Little Pony..." puzzle theme. I found it while driving around looking for a spot for another cache, but didn't use it then because I couldn't think of a good way to leave a bigger-than-micro cache there.
So I'm using that spot as a waypoint. It's a scenic, historic area. I hope you enjoy it. To get you there, I started with an easy puzzle, but added a little twist inspired by that original alphabet. | ||||||
148.8 mi S | 13 | Micro | 3.0 / 1.0 | 2022.09.01 | 2013.08.24 | |
Hidden 08/24/2013
This is another one of PhilNi's clever, elegant, unique puzzles, which he graciously allowed me to copy. This puzzle had me flummoxed for a LONG time before a flash of inspiration hit me while working on another of his puzzles.
I enjoy the area around the cache and visit it often. :D | ||||||
Hidden 08/24/2013
This is another one of PhilNi's clever, elegant, unique puzzles, which he graciously allowed me to copy. This puzzle had me flummoxed for a LONG time before a flash of inspiration hit me while working on another of his puzzles.
I enjoy the area around the cache and visit it often. :D | ||||||
140.7 mi S | 76 | Regular | 4.5 / 5.0 | 2025.03.22 | 2014.02.25 | |
Hidden : 02/25/2014
I hadn't intended on publishing this challenge. I completed it myself as my own personal, silly challenge. But when I learned others were working towards it, I decided that the challenge ought to be published by someone who's actually done it.
This will be especially tough for those who've already used up their collection of solved puzzles on other mystery challenges. | ||||||
Hidden : 02/25/2014
I hadn't intended on publishing this challenge. I completed it myself as my own personal, silly challenge. But when I learned others were working towards it, I decided that the challenge ought to be published by someone who's actually done it.
This will be especially tough for those who've already used up their collection of solved puzzles on other mystery challenges. | ||||||
by: charliewhiskeyGC4Z87W | 143 mi S | 64 | Regular | 5.0 / 5.0 | 2024.11.08 | 2014.02.26 |
Hidden : 02/26/2014
As with the Mystery-A-Day Challenge, I hadn't intended on publishing this. I completed it myself as my own personal, silly challenge. But when I learned others were working towards this too, I decided that the challenge ought to be published by someone who's actually done it.
Some of the D/T combinations are especially hard to get - there just aren't any of them nearby. Good luck to anyone going for this. | ||||||
Hidden : 02/26/2014
As with the Mystery-A-Day Challenge, I hadn't intended on publishing this. I completed it myself as my own personal, silly challenge. But when I learned others were working towards this too, I decided that the challenge ought to be published by someone who's actually done it.
Some of the D/T combinations are especially hard to get - there just aren't any of them nearby. Good luck to anyone going for this. |